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Also I'm seeing "screencap dunk" culture coming over already and seriously can we not

@AzureFemme my hot take is that people give twitter the company too much credit for ruining twitter and not enough credit to the people on it, many of whom will be coming here if they’re not already.

@AzureFemme like yeah twitter the company sucks, but they’re also not the ones tweeting all the things that make us feel shitty constantly (they’re just profiting from it)

@AzureFemme (sorry, this is my pessimism about social media coming out, i was very skeptical of much of the mastodon optimism and I’m feeling very Validated about it rn, even though i do think it’s better and the open architecture is definitely an improvement)

@poss_bot I don't know what to say in response to this. I understand that and also want someplace to be where this isn't happening.

@AzureFemme i ALSO think this is a thing that will just have to shake out on mastodon periodically (and that it will isn’t an indictment of the platform to be certain!). It just grew a lot, I’m not surprised really. It does suck though, and even i was hoping we’d somehow magically avoid it this time.

@AzureFemme (also i apologize if any of this comes off as crass, what you’re talking about seriously sucks, people shouldn’t put up with it, and i think better things are possible. They just aren’t going to happen bc we moved to a new site, there’s more to do than that!)

@poss_bot yeah I hear that. I find vocal pessimism rarely helpful for myself so that can be offputting but I also hear your realistic concerns

@AzureFemme really sorry. That was a bit of emotions spilling out where they probably shouldn’t have been; i don’t at all wanna diminish your feelings/needs by going “i told you/everyone so!”. I’m feeling some complex and challenging feelings rn for sure.

@poss_bot that's fair. There's a lot going on and investment in platforms and people absolutely have expectations for Masto that aren't realistic. Its hard

@poss_bot

I mean, I suppose the plus side is you could always start your own server. But yeah, the most unfixable bugs are in the human OS

@AzureFemme

@smona @AzureFemme My partner and i just finished setting up our own instance about 30 min ago fwiw

@AzureFemme @poss_bot I think as folks continue migrating over some negative behaviors will also transfer, at least at the outset, but with actual community enforcement and an interest in accountability it can be curbed much more than it was on twitter. the platform doesn’t encourage dogpiling in the same way at all (it was gamified over there), but a lot of the onus falls on the moderators

@MillennialDog @poss_bot I'm hoping that as people use smaller more reasonable sized instances moderators can be better at nuance and context rather than "1000 terfs reported this so I guess it's bad"

@AzureFemme @poss_bot I completely agree, I think there will always be negativity on any given platform but it’s disingenuous not to point out that twitter enables a special kind of vitriol when it only bans stuff like nazi propaganda only where it *legally has to* and enables conspiracy theorists

@AzureFemme @poss_bot these are things that other social media platforms are at least saving face by claiming to disavow, twitter owning it and gamifying negativity (since that is likely what folks will interact with) is a unique kind of bad

@AzureFemme @poss_bot it’s probably not the Chill Second Coming but it’s gonna be markedly better and bringing back small web communities feels right in this zeitgeist. own the means babyyyy

@MillennialDog @AzureFemme @poss_bot Yeah, I don't think this can be overstated. Twitter algorithms actively looked for posts that you "interacted with" and tried to find more. So it ended up signal boosting shit that made you angry, because that's what people interact with in over the top ways.

Things that make us happy get a star, maybe a comment, and then we move on.

@sandrockcstm @MillennialDog @AzureFemme i totally agree with all of this. But I’m also fairly convinced that most of what i really disliked about twitter (personally, i suppose i can’t speak for others) really came from people in my own social sphere, and wasn’t the result of algorithms or clickbait.

@sandrockcstm @MillennialDog @AzureFemme though the clickbait and horrible news being plastered everywhere did NOT help

@sandrockcstm @MillennialDog (tagging blue out cause i don’t wanna dump tons of posts on them) also i REALLY think the structure of mastodon is way more conducive to people eventually landing in a place that’s as safe for them as is likely possible on a social media platform!! Like i have faith in the architecture and also in many of the folks trying to make it good. I think we have the wind at our backs here in a way we did not on twitter.

@AzureFemme @poss_bot sorry for budging in, but I want to add that we have more tools to handle those things here.

Like that we can silence or suspend whole instances, that have users with mostly that behavior.

There are at least better moderation tools here, to make sure that toxic culture doesn't spread too far.

@maxinered @AzureFemme @poss_bot further butts

Here I also made a stand against that by telling people to cut it out and / or CW where appropriate or I'm done with them

I can't do it anymore and I'm making it clear that isn't welcome on my TL. I'll just do without people who so it and boost it.

Harsh but I have to reclaim some of what I lost to Twitter

@electrocutie @maxinered @AzureFemme @poss_bot I'm blocking anyone involed in that sort of thing. Fuck it. I will not have that in my life anymore. Enough harassment and bullying.

@AzureFemme @poss_bot @Gargron I wonder if this could be something that instances add to their rules. Something like “quote tooting or screencap dunking is expressly not allowed/3-strikes bannable offense” or something.

@poss_bot @AzureFemme thank you for helping me find the words to describe how I've been feeling about mastodon these past few days

@poss_bot @AzureFemme I agree, and Twitter not only profits from it, they gamify it, which incentivizes it enormously. More clicks and tweets means more ad revenue, even when those clicks are people having online wars.

@poss_bot @AzureFemme Also, they're encouraging it through their algorithms that bias towards "engagement."

@poss_bot I mean let's be real Twitter the company is also complicit in it but yeah also there are lots of toxic people

@AzureFemme right? you think disabling quote retweets sent a CLEAR message to people that was a behavior that frequently resulted in harm and toxicity, but people are gonna try anyway

@AzureFemme I really wish it would stop. It's a big toxic Twitter thing that we do not need in this space.

@ratbaby yeah same. Just gonna block everyone I see doing it I guess

@AzureFemme is this why people keep tooting screenshots of other toots? I really didn't understand why they're doing it.

@baronnarcveldt I don't think cw's would counter the underlying toxicity of it personally

@AzureFemme I don't disagree. I would ultimately like to see birdsite culture kept over there permanently. Most people who weren't banned can still go there and get whatever they get out of it like dunking on people. And this site clearly has its own unique culture

@AzureFemme As an apparent neophyte, I'm not sure I'm familiar with that concept?

@mattfox taking screenshots of someone's toots to complain about how horrible they are and/or screenshotting a conversation you have with them where you make fun of them

@AzureFemme Same. But that's the power of Mastodon as a platform. Active moderators and peering rules to keep the idiots isolated :)

@AzureFemme So yeah, I mix up slang and googled "screencap dunk"-- this is the top hit for the phrase.

If I understand the term correctly, yeah I'd rather not too. I like just talking to people and enjoying the things they want to share.

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