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GRRM worldcon speech, discourse - 

ffs.

I鈥檓 in the middle (=start) of my language-learning full reread. I just got the maps. I just customised the maps. can I like _one_ mainstream fandom without the author rushing to ruin it 馃槥馃挗

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what is a fantasy series with big, detailed, immersive worldbuilding/lore that鈥檚 not written by a cisgender white man?

Other than Le Guin ofc.

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Sarah Monette鈥檚 芦The Goblin Emperor禄 is pretty much what I鈥檓 asking for exactly鈥攃omplete with a !!鈥攅xcept there鈥檚 only 1 book so far. still hyped about the sequel & hope more come out of it.

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@elilla Check out Kameron Hurley. She writes series in both fantasy and scifi, with tons of worldbuilding.

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@elilla Oh, and N. K. Jemisin's Inheritance books (before Broken Earth).

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@elilla there's Robin Hobb's work, such as the Liveship Traders and Rain Wilds series. #books

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@elilla Ooh, I didn't realize there was going to be a sequel! It read like a stand-alone.

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@naga would be a shame to set up all those background hints about goblin society (and a conlang!!!! did I mention conlang) and then just let it go to waste now wouldnt it 馃槍

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@elilla Looks like the second book is more of a second story in the same setting--best of both worlds! (no pun)

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@elilla

If you're looking for quality worldbuilding high fantasy that's big, detailed, realistic and has phenomenally compelling characters and is written by a Japanese-Canadian woman:

Check out Michelle Sagara West's House War series. It's brilliantly complex, the worldbuilding spans multiple cultural archetypes, and everything hangs together incredibly well.

I lost like 3 weeks devouring the whole series and barely spoke to my husband or showered the whole time.

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@eleanorkonik @elilla Ooh, thanks for the tip--looks right up my alley!

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@naga @elilla Michelle Sagara West is such a wonderful author. Her Cast--- series is enjoyable, but the House War series is unbelievably good.

Let me know what you think, if you get a chance!

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@eleanorkonik @elilla It looks like a lot of her series share a world and some overlapping events, in Essalieyan. Would you recommend starting with the Hunt books, if I can find them?

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@naga @elilla Oh man. I don't know that I'm qualified to say where to start because I sort of fell into the series sideways -- I was already a fan so when I found out she had this whole other book series I went out and just bought one of the books thinking it was a short series and then discovered in the middle that there's a whole other series tucked away inside haha.

electrapritchett.com/2019/07/1 is probably what I would go by, though?

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@eleanorkonik @elilla Super, thanks. It sounds this is also a good way to avoid possibly being turned off by a less evolved style in the first two.

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@naga

I hope you like them! I also enjoy her Chronicles of Elantra series but by my standards Elantra isn't quite as good, because I feel like more *happens* in the House War series each book. So when I found the Essalieyan series I absolutely fell in love because the Essalieyan books are everything I love about series with complex worldbuilding and realistic politics and fantastically creative magic systems.

Plus, parts reminded me of Dune... without the sketchy bits.

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@eleanorkonik I think 18 books will get me started!

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@naga Oh man are there really that many? The reading process was kind of a blur but I remember devouring them one after another in rapid succession.

I wonder if I somehow missed any?

Clearly I need to go back and re-read the series in its intended order!

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@elilla Have you heard of N. K. Jemisen? Both the Inheritance series and the Broken Earth series are very good, though the latter is..... Heavy as fuck, so you may want to look into content warnings before reading it.

We also enjoyed Karen Miller's Kingmaker, Kingbreaker series, though it's been a while since we read it.

I remember a lot of Tamora Pierce's books being good.

We remember enjoying Margaret Weis's Death Gate Cycle for its worldbuilding.

Hmm. Maybe Diane Duane's Young Wizards series? We barely remember anything to recommend them though, it's been a decade or more since we last read them.

If you're okay with video game stuff too, the game Wild Arms 3 is excellent in terms of worldbuilding, and though we don't know the gender of its writer (Akifumi Kaneko) we are reasonably certain they're Japanese.

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@Felthry thanks for your suggestions!

I read Broken Earth and The City We Became by Jemisin. I loved both and I think characters and plots and themes were all fantastic, but I would classify them more as beginning-to-end stories than immersive worldbuilding. Didn鈥檛 try Inheritance.

I鈥檝e been reading a lot of fantasy by women and queer authors, but most of it seem to focus more on plot than worldbuilding. Conlangs are pretty rare too, sadly.

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@elilla We found the worldbuilding in Broken Earth to be fascinating, but we're also the sort who just latch on to any scrap of worldbuilding because it's the main thing we enjoy in stories.
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worldcon GRRM issue 

@Felthry maybe we mean different things by "worldbuilding". I mean a lot of lore material that鈥檚 not there to serve the plot or particular stories. things like Tolkien writing an entire story ("The Shibboleth of Feanor") just to explain why Galadriel鈥檚 rendition of Namari毛 uses the phoneme /s/ rather than /胃/ for th煤le. or GRRM鈥檚 2-volume fictional historical treatise "Fire & Blood", that sorta stuff. the 12 maps I now regret having acquired after GRRM sided w/ a fascist.

re: worldcon GRRM issue 

@elilla We use the word to mean a slightly broader thing, I think--worldbuilding to us includes that, but also anything that explores the world even if it does serve the story. The sort you talk about is indeed especially nice, but I'm not sure how much of it there is in the things I recommended.
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worldcon GRRM issue 

@elilla @Felthry Ah, Inheritance may not be a great fit after all. I stand by Kameron Hurley. Worldbreaker is a masterwork of worldbuilding.

If you'll go to SF, her Bel Dame Aprocrypha books are very good as well--they're far future "bugpunk" with a lot of stuff happening just over the horizon.

worldcon GRRM issue 

@elilla Oh, and Worldbreaker heavily centers women. Bel Dame Apocrypha has hardly a white person in sight, and the locales it's mostly set are disproportionately populated by women (because of worldbuilding stuff).

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@elilla I like Lois McMaster Bujold very much. Her vorkosigan series is one of my favorites.
I also like the Skolan empire series by Catherine Asaro.
I can list more if those look interesting.

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@elilla Firekeeper's Saga, Jane Lindskold

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